"Crap Detector" <cicer…@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:4953dc53-2b46-4540-b5c3-970cac2b68c4@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com…
- — -
>A recent Gallup poll shows that only 48% now approve of organized
> labor. This 48% seems far too high to
> many conservatives but is a considerable drop from Gallup’s first poll
> on labor unions way back in 1937 when
> the number was 72% approval.
> Today most Americans think that labor unions are selfish; that they
> may be good for their own members but outsiders can go to hell. In
> other words labor unions are a greedy vested, special interest group
> just like the trial or tort lawyers. However, they spend a lot of
> money on lobbying, propaganda and exerting pressure on politicians.
> Here they have been very powerful and successful at this especially
> with the Democrat party.
> Recently many Americans have learned that unions have destroyed the
> American auto industry, have degraded the education system, and seen
> the public service union, SEIU, become a debilitating force re. U.S.
> deficits and national debt, the U.S. economy and American economic
> productivity.
> Whenever the SEIU makes gains for its members, it is only at the
> expense of American taxpayers, not big corporations.
************
I recall when John L. Lewis was head of the United Mine Workers he took his
members on a nationwide strike, trying to shut down the American economy.
When asked by a reporter what he wanted, his one word reply was "More." That
was when I first realized how selfish the unions were, to the detriment of
all others.
Dionysus
- — -
"Dionysus" <no.surren…@never.net> wrote in
news:CNWdnXUOaL7l-zvXnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@giganews.com:
> I recall when John L. Lewis was head of the United Mine Workers he
> took his members on a nationwide strike, trying to shut down the
> American economy. When asked by a reporter what he wanted, his one
> word reply was "More." That was when I first realized how selfish the
> unions were, to the detriment of all others.
Would you prefer workers trust their fate to the mercy of capitalists?
"Joe Steel" <JoeSt…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C814DBCBF079JoeSteel@216.168.3.70…
> "Dionysus" <no.surren…@never.net> wrote in
> news:CNWdnXUOaL7l-zvXnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@giganews.com:
>> I recall when John L. Lewis was head of the United Mine Workers he
>> took his members on a nationwide strike, trying to shut down the
>> American economy. When asked by a reporter what he wanted, his one
>> word reply was "More." That was when I first realized how selfish the
>> unions were, to the detriment of all others.
> Would you prefer workers trust their fate to the mercy of capitalists?
*************
Well, hell yes! Far better than the thugs at the top of the crooked
enterprises called "unions."
"For many people, even today, high profits are often attributed to high
prices charged by those motivated by "greed." In reality most of the
fortunes in American history have resulted in someone’s figuring out how to
reduce costs so as to be able to charge lower prices and therefore gain a
mass market for the product. Henry Ford did this with automobiles,
Rockefeller with oil, Carnegie with steel and Sears, Penney and Walton and
other department store chain founders with a variety of products." –Thomas
Sowell
"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his
fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose
fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate
arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone
the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." –Thomas
Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, 6 April 1816
"Beware the fallacies into which undisciplined thinkers most easily
fall–they are the real distorting prisms of human nature." –Francis Bacon
Dionysus
"Where did you get those China Blue jeans" <chine.b…@yahoo.com> wrote in
message
news:chine.bleu-C32BB6.08204809092009@reader80.eternal-september.org…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> In article <QpGdnVVGKZRSKjrXnZ2dnUVZ_qudn…@giganews.com>,
> "Dionysus" <no.surren…@never.net> wrote:
>> "Joe Steel" <JoeSt…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9C814DBCBF079JoeSteel@216.168.3.70…
>> > "Dionysus" <no.surren…@never.net> wrote in
>> > news:CNWdnXUOaL7l-zvXnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@giganews.com:
>> >> I recall when John L. Lewis was head of the United Mine Workers he
>> >> took his members on a nationwide strike, trying to shut down the
>> >> American economy. When asked by a reporter what he wanted, his one
>> >> word reply was "More." That was when I first realized how selfish the
>> >> unions were, to the detriment of all others.
>> > Would you prefer workers trust their fate to the mercy of capitalists?
>> *************
>> Well, hell yes! Far better than the thugs at the top of the crooked
>> enterprises called "unions."
> Lordy, you’re an idiot.
************
Now, now, put down the mirror, we’ll still pity you.
Dionysus
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> —
> Damn the living – It’s a lovely life. I’m whoever you want me to
> be.
> Silver silverware – Where is the love? At least I can stay in
> character.
> Oval swimming pool – Where is the love? Annoying Usenet one post at a
> time.
> Damn the living – It’s a lovely life. We support you,
> Sarah.
"Dionysus" <no.surren…@never.net> wrote in
news:QpGdnVVGKZRSKjrXnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@giganews.com:
> "Joe Steel" <JoeSt…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
>> Would you prefer workers trust their fate to the mercy of
>> capitalists?
> *************
> Well, hell yes! Far better than the thugs at the top of the crooked
> enterprises called "unions."
Capitalists are no more merciful or generous than is necessary to serve
themselves. Trusting in them would be foolish.
"Joe Steel" <JoeSt…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C8176B33D750JoeSteel@216.168.3.70…
> "Dionysus" <no.surren…@never.net> wrote in
> news:QpGdnVVGKZRSKjrXnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@giganews.com:
>> "Joe Steel" <JoeSt…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
>>> Would you prefer workers trust their fate to the mercy of
>>> capitalists?
>> *************
>> Well, hell yes! Far better than the thugs at the top of the crooked
>> enterprises called "unions."
> Capitalists are no more merciful or generous than is necessary to serve
> themselves. Trusting in them would be foolish.
************
Unschooled fool, everyone acts in their own self interest. Do grow up.
"Capitalism is the complete embodiment of social justice. In a social or
political context, justice means that every person gets no more, and no
less, than what he gains through voluntary association with other men. A
capitalist society is a just society because all individuals are considered
equal under the law." –Capitalism FAQ
"The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule
it." –H. L. Mencken
Dionysus
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Where did you get those China Blue jeans wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> In article
> <QpGdnVVGKZRSKjrXnZ2dnUVZ_qudn…@giganews.com>,
> "Dionysus" <no.surren…@never.net> wrote:
>> "Joe Steel" <JoeSt…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9C814DBCBF079JoeSteel@216.168.3.70…
>> > "Dionysus" <no.surren…@never.net> wrote in
>> > news:CNWdnXUOaL7l-zvXnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@giganews.com:
>> >> I recall when John L. Lewis was head of the United
>> >> Mine Workers he
>> >> took his members on a nationwide strike, trying to
>> >> shut down the
>> >> American economy. When asked by a reporter what he
>> >> wanted, his one
>> >> word reply was "More." That was when I first realized
>> >> how selfish
>> >> the unions were, to the detriment of all others.
>> > Would you prefer workers trust their fate to the mercy
>> > of
>> > capitalists?
>> *************
>> Well, hell yes! Far better than the thugs at the top of
>> the crooked
>> enterprises called "unions."
> Lordy, you’re an idiot.
You are a master of understatement.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Lyin’ Pindick Denis wrote:
> "Joe Steel" <JoeSt…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C8176B33D750JoeSteel@216.168.3.70…
>> "Dionysus" <no.surren…@never.net> wrote in
>> news:QpGdnVVGKZRSKjrXnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>> "Joe Steel" <JoeSt…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
>>>> Would you prefer workers trust their fate to the mercy
>>>> of
>>>> capitalists?
>>> *************
>>> Well, hell yes! Far better than the thugs at the top of
>>> the crooked
>>> enterprises called "unions."
>> Capitalists are no more merciful or generous than is
>> necessary to
>> serve themselves. Trusting in them would be foolish.
> ************
> Unschooled fool, everyone acts in their own self interest.
> Do grow up.
> "Capitalism is the complete embodiment of social justice.
> In a social
> or political context, justice means that every person
> gets no more,
> and no less, than what he gains through voluntary
> association with
> other men. A capitalist society is a just society because
> all
> individuals are considered equal under the
> law." –Capitalism FAQ
Anybody who believes this paragraph and especially that last
sentence is a complete fool, i.e., a Denis.
"Lamont Cranston" <Lamont.Crans…@WhoKnows.com> wrote in
news:h88phr$g07$1@news.datemas.de:
> Lyin’ Pindick Denis wrote:
>> "Joe Steel" <JoeSt…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
>>> Capitalists are no more merciful or generous than is
>>> necessary to serve themselves. Trusting in them would be foolish.
************
>> Unschooled fool, everyone acts in their own self interest.
>> Do grow up.
>> "Capitalism is the complete embodiment of social justice.
>> In a social or political context, justice means that every person
>> gets no more, and no less, than what he gains through voluntary
>> association with other men. A capitalist society is a just society
>> because all individuals are considered equal under the
>> law." –Capitalism FAQ
> Anybody who believes this paragraph and especially that last
> sentence is a complete fool, i.e., a Denis.
Indeed. Capitalism may be lawful but it’s not just.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Joe Steel wrote:
> "Lamont Cranston" <Lamont.Crans…@WhoKnows.com> wrote in
> news:h88phr$g07$1@news.datemas.de:
>> Lyin’ Pindick Denis wrote:
>>> "Joe Steel" <JoeSt…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
>>>> Capitalists are no more merciful or generous than is
>>>> necessary to serve themselves. Trusting in them would
>>>> be foolish.
> ************
>>> Unschooled fool, everyone acts in their own self
>>> interest.
>>> Do grow up.
>>> "Capitalism is the complete embodiment of social
>>> justice.
>>> In a social or political context, justice means that
>>> every person
>>> gets no more, and no less, than what he gains through
>>> voluntary
>>> association with other men. A capitalist society is a
>>> just society
>>> because all individuals are considered equal under the
>>> law." –Capitalism FAQ
>> Anybody who believes this paragraph and especially that
>> last
>> sentence is a complete fool, i.e., a Denis.
> Indeed. Capitalism may be lawful but it’s not just.
That’s why we don’t have unfettered capitalism in this
country. Unfettered capitalism (what the wingnuts call
"free markets") results in two things: monopolies and
depressions. We had five depressions between 1807 and 1941
lasting from six to twelve years each. We never went more
than 31 years without a depression. With the regulations
that were established after the Great Depression of
1929-1941, we have now gone 68 years without a depression.
But, the wingnuts did away with the banking regulations in
1998 and it took only 9 years for the financial industry to
almost collapse and plunge us into another depression.
Wingnuts never learn, they just get more greedy. "Free
markets" = monopolies and depressions.
Where did you get those China Blue jeans wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> In article <T9GdnXOVxL4OfDrXnZ2dnUVZ_g-dn…@giganews.com>,
> "Dionysus" <no.surren…@never.net> wrote:
>> "Joe Steel" <JoeSt…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9C8176B33D750JoeSteel@216.168.3.70…
>>> "Dionysus" <no.surren…@never.net> wrote in
>>> news:QpGdnVVGKZRSKjrXnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>>> "Joe Steel" <JoeSt…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
>>>>> Would you prefer workers trust their fate to the mercy of
>>>>> capitalists?
>>>> *************
>>>> Well, hell yes! Far better than the thugs at the top of the crooked
>>>> enterprises called "unions."
>>> Capitalists are no more merciful or generous than is necessary to serve
>>> themselves. Trusting in them would be foolish.
>> ************
>> Unschooled fool, everyone acts in their own self interest. Do grow up.
> Then you agree unions should push for as much pay and benefits as they can.
> Anything else would not be acting in their own self interest. You would also
Is it in their interest to cause a business that employs their members
to fail?
> agree workers should unionise if that brings them greater benefits.
> So what were you whinging about? That one party is more successful in pursuing
> its own self interest than others?
Sometime the parasite kills the host, then they both lose.
A symbiotic relationship means that you help or at least don’t hurt each
other.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
"Where did you get those China Blue jeans" <chine.b…@yahoo.com> wrote in
message
news:chine.bleu-009170.12542009092009@reader80.eternal-september.org…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> In article <T9GdnXOVxL4OfDrXnZ2dnUVZ_g-dn…@giganews.com>,
> "Dionysus" <no.surren…@never.net> wrote:
>> "Joe Steel" <JoeSt…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9C8176B33D750JoeSteel@216.168.3.70…
>> > "Dionysus" <no.surren…@never.net> wrote in
>> > news:QpGdnVVGKZRSKjrXnZ2dnUVZ_qudnZ2d@giganews.com:
>> >> "Joe Steel" <JoeSt…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
>> >>> Would you prefer workers trust their fate to the mercy of
>> >>> capitalists?
>> >> *************
>> >> Well, hell yes! Far better than the thugs at the top of the crooked
>> >> enterprises called "unions."
>> > Capitalists are no more merciful or generous than is necessary to serve
>> > themselves. Trusting in them would be foolish.
>> ************
>> Unschooled fool, everyone acts in their own self interest. Do grow up.
> Then you agree unions should push for as much pay and benefits as they
> can.
> Anything else would not be acting in their own self interest. You would
> also
> agree workers should unionise if that brings them greater benefits.
> So what were you whinging about? That one party is more successful in
> pursuing
> its own self interest than others?
*******
Not at all…more power to them. It’s in their self interest, as it is in
the self interest of the employer to pay what the job is worth…no more. My
post concerned the dilapidated condition of the American union movement with
its thug leadership. That’s all.
Dionysus
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> —
> Damn the living – It’s a lovely life. I’m whoever you want me to
> be.
> Silver silverware – Where is the love? At least I can stay in
> character.
> Oval swimming pool – Where is the love? Annoying Usenet one post at a
> time.
> Damn the living – It’s a lovely life. We support you,
> Sarah.
"Lamont Cranston" <Lamont.Crans…@WhoKnows.com> wrote in news:h88set$jm7
$…@news.datemas.de:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Joe Steel wrote:
>> Indeed. Capitalism may be lawful but it’s not just.
> That’s why we don’t have unfettered capitalism in this
> country. Unfettered capitalism (what the wingnuts call
> "free markets") results in two things: monopolies and
> depressions. We had five depressions between 1807 and 1941
> lasting from six to twelve years each. We never went more
> than 31 years without a depression. With the regulations
> that were established after the Great Depression of
> 1929-1941, we have now gone 68 years without a depression.
> But, the wingnuts did away with the banking regulations in
> 1998 and it took only 9 years for the financial industry to
> almost collapse and plunge us into another depression.
> Wingnuts never learn, they just get more greedy. "Free
> markets" = monopolies and depressions.
It makes me wonder if wingnuts are evil or just stupid. They insist on
doint the things which have caused grief on an untold scale.
"Joe Steel" <JoeSt…@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C825FF059C8CJoeSteel@216.168.3.70…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Lamont Cranston" <Lamont.Crans…@WhoKnows.com> wrote in news:h88set$jm7
> $…@news.datemas.de:
>> Joe Steel wrote:
>>> Indeed. Capitalism may be lawful but it’s not just.
>> That’s why we don’t have unfettered capitalism in this
>> country. Unfettered capitalism (what the wingnuts call
>> "free markets") results in two things: monopolies and
>> depressions. We had five depressions between 1807 and 1941
>> lasting from six to twelve years each. We never went more
>> than 31 years without a depression. With the regulations
>> that were established after the Great Depression of
>> 1929-1941, we have now gone 68 years without a depression.
>> But, the wingnuts did away with the banking regulations in
>> 1998 and it took only 9 years for the financial industry to
>> almost collapse and plunge us into another depression.
>> Wingnuts never learn, they just get more greedy. "Free
>> markets" = monopolies and depressions.
> It makes me wonder if wingnuts are evil or just stupid. They insist on
> doint the things which have caused grief on an untold scale.
*************
What nonsense you spew. Take a look at the grief caused by your namesake and
others of his ill ilk, then get back to us.
Dionysus
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Don’t believe the phoney stats quoted here from phoney right wing
sources.
Canadian Health Care, Even With Queues, Bests U.S. (Update1)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a_zs1Y1FspIM
By Pat Wechsler
Sept. 18 (Bloomberg) — Opponents of overhauling U.S. health care
argue that Canada shows what happens when government gets involved in
medicine, saying the country is plagued by inferior treatment,
rationing and months-long queues.
The allegations are wrong by almost every measure, according to
research by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development
and other independent studies published during the past five years.
While delays do occur for non-emergency procedures, data indicate that
Canada s system of universal health coverage provides care as good as
in the U.S., at a cost 47 percent less for each person.
There is an image of Canadians flooding across the border to get
care, said Donald Berwick, a Harvard University health- policy
specialist and pediatrician who heads the Boston-based nonprofit
Institute for Healthcare Improvement. That s just not the case. The
public in Canada is far more satisfied with the system than they are
in the U.S. and health care is at least as good, with much more
contained costs.
Canadians live two to three years longer than Americans and are as
likely to survive heart attacks, childhood leukemia, and breast and
cervical cancer, according to the OECD, the Paris- based coalition of
30 industrialized nations.
Deaths considered preventable through health care are less frequent in
Canada than in the U.S., according to a January 2008 report in the
journal Health Affairs. In the study by British researchers, Canada
placed sixth among 19 countries surveyed, with 77 deaths for every
100,000 people. That compared with the last-place finish of the U.S.,
with 110 deaths.
Infant Mortality
The Canadian mortality rate from asthma is one quarter of the U.S. s,
and the infant mortality rate is 34 percent lower, OECD data show.
People in Canada are also 21 percent more apt to survive five years
after a liver transplant.
Yet the Canadian bogeyman, as U.S. President Barack Obama called it
at an Aug. 11 gathering in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, may have all
but defeated the idea of a public option in the U.S., said Uwe
Reinhardt, a health-care economist at Princeton University in
Princeton, New Jersey.
Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, Democrat from Montana,
introduced on Sept. 16 compromise health-care legislation that, unlike
other House and Senate bills, omits a government-backed choice for the
uninsured living in the U.S. who can t afford private coverage.
& lots more at
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a_zs1Y1FspIM
The article also tells about some of the flaws in the Canadian system.
I find it interesting tha, when needing medical treatment, many members
of Canada’s leadership come to the US.
"To be forced to believe only one conclusion- that everything in the
universe happened by chance- would violate the very objectivity of
science itself."
Dr. Wernher von Braun
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 09:45:09 -0400, Dionysus wrote:
> FROM THE HILL
> HEAD: Already, 23 Dems have said they will vote ‘no’ on healthcare
> reform By Mike Soraghan and Michael M. Gleeson
> At least 23 House Democrats already have told constituents or hometown
> media that they oppose the massive healthcare overhaul touted by
> President Barack Obama.
Those 23 people are Republicans dressed in a Democrat suit OR this
constituents are Republicans that simply could not stand the lying pig
shit of the current Republican party. In the latter case the members may
still Democrats because they represent their constituents. But they have
failed in their responsibility to adequately inform their constituents.
They have allowed the Republican lie machine to define health care reform.
> If Republicans offer the blanket opposition they’ve promised, Speaker
> Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) can afford to lose only 38 members of her
> 256-member caucus and still pass the bill.
The Republicans _WILL_ stick to lock step monolithic stupidity because
they are all great leader butt suckers and their leaders are all
corporate whores.
> Most Democrats opposed to healthcare reform argue it costs too much,
> imposes a new tax and fines businesses that don’t provide insurance to
> employees. Some fear that the bill would subsidize abortion.
Some have actually helped the Republicans lie about the facts and mostly
it has been the lies about costs. The Republican stupidity plank
essential to their survival has always been the religious tenet that
government will always waste money and can never provide a better service
than the private sector. The short course is that taxes are burned in a
furnace and thus a tax increase that actually isn’t burned in a furnace
but is instead used to reduce the price of health care is a blasphemous
outrage. If this proposition is allowed, the Republican party will cease
to exist. And the lies will be large and often to keep the truth of
government superiority in providing insurance from getting through to the
faithful.
> Many other Democratic members, including those berated by protesters at
> raucous town hall meetings in August, are still undecided. A lot could
> change before the vote, expected late this month.
The longer this takes the more truth will leak out. That is a very bad
thing for for the Republican party and a very good thing for the rational
people of America.
> Voting against a president from your own party is starkly different from
> defying a Speaker or a committee chairman, and Obama is stepping up his
> involvement, starting with a speech to a joint session of Congress on
> Wednesday night.
This President campaigned on health care reform and was elected on it and
so too were the members of the Democratic party. The party can pass a
health care reform bill that actually has some teeth or the party is in
deep shit. And that is EXACTLY THE WAY IT SHOULD BE.
> The Pelosi camp, for its part, sees no reason to be discouraged.
> "The Congress will pass and the president will sign this year health
> insurance reform that will lower costs, retain choice, improve quality
> and expand coverage," said Pelosi spokesman Nadeam Elshami.
> Pelosi has vowed to include in the bill a government-run insurance plan,
> commonly called a "public option," to compete with private insurers.
And that is EXACTLY THE WAY IT SHOULD BE.
> Many centrist opponents of the bill don’t like the public option, or
> don’t want to vote on such a controversial plan when it’s unlikely to
> become law.
If the bought and paid for lobby butt sucking Senators want to be removed
from the Senate in the next election then they can help the Republicans
remove this OPTION from the bill. In that case _THEY_ will be removed in
the next election. More than 60% of the voters, when they actually
understand what _THE_ Public Option is, are for the inclusion of this
CHOICE.
> There’s a chance the House bill won’t include it. Obama has shifted from
> saying it must be in the bill to saying he wants it in the bill.
LIE ALERT!!!
Obama has _NEVER_ INSISTED on this particular inclusion. As a matter of
fact, he has never insisted on ANY particular legislation. He has
established broad objectives as a president should and left the actual
law making to the people who are constitutionally assigned that task.
He has let it be known that he believes the Public Option to be a very
desirable part of a reform package. He reiterates that position over and
over again and NOTHING has changed.
> House
> leaders have said they want to see a bill from the Senate Finance
> Committee before the vote, and that bill is unlikely to include a public
> option.
This is total pig shit. The idea that the House leadership do not know
the contents of the bill is as stupid as it gets. The Public Option is
alive and well in the House bill and will remain so.
> But deleting the public option won’t make life easier for Pelosi.
Deleting the public option at this point will be the end of the hunt for
Pelosi and the Democratic leadership.
> At least 60 liberal Democrats have pledged to vote against a healthcare
> bill with no public option, which they view as watered-down reform.
There is simply no reason to remove it because the majority support the
choice of this option.
> Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) has said dropping the public option
> completely would lose 100 Democratic votes.
An that is EXACTLY AS IT SHOULD BE.
> Even Pelosi’s critics and skeptics have to concede that she has almost
> never lost in the House since becoming Speaker. The main exception is
> the first vote on the $700 billion bailout package requested by the Bush
> administration, which later passed.
And that initial vote was RIGHT. It took the bought and paid for Senate
working through all the party apparatus it could find to get that bill
through the House. That is not going to work for the Public Option. The
Senators are going top be forced to carry their own water on this one.
> She twisted arms one by one in July to pass a climate change bill
> despite deep skepticism among centrists and Democrats from manufacturing
> states. But some of the public backlash from that has frightened and
> angered centrist and vulnerable members.
As well it should! That bill is a piece of crap.
> Democratic critics have different reasons for opposing the bill, and
> their opposition varies in its vehemence.
Nope! The actual Democrats that don’t like it want a single payer system
and are being hard headed about it. In the event, they will vote for a
strong public option.
> Rep. Eric Massa (D-N.Y.) a supporter of a "single-payer" system, opposes
> it because the public option isn’t strong enough. Other "single-payer"
> supporters in the party’s left wing could balk as well.
> Some are definitive. There’s Rep. Gene Taylor (D-Miss.), a Blue Dog who
> is one of the most conservative members of the Democratic Caucus. He
> told a town hall meeting last month, "I would hope by now that everyone
> in this room knows that I am not going to vote for the healthcare plan."
That is fine. He is a conservative and will vote as his conservative
constituents want. In a true representative form of government that is
EXACTLY AS IT SHOULD BE. He is therefore a Democrat.
> Rep. John Adler (D-N.J.), a vulnerable Democrat, was equally blunt. He
> told a group of constituents last month, "The bill that’s coming through
> the House, with or without the public option, isn’t good for America."
So his vote won’t change either based on a public option.
> Others, such as Rep. Henry Cuellar (D-Texas), say they can’t support the
> bill "in its current form." The bill is widely expected to change before
> it goes to the House floor, but if Pelosi keeps the public option in the
> bill, many centrists will see it as a left-leaning bill.
That is not actually relevant. All bills that do not kiss the ass of the
monolithic rightarded Republican party are "left leaning".
> Rep. Tom Perriello (D-Va.), who unseated an incumbent in 2008 by a scant
> 745 votes, said at a town hall meeting , "I am a ‘no’ now, but I really
> want to get to a ‘yes.’ "
There you go.. He is going to vote as he believes necessary to keep his
seat and he has a year to set the record straight concerning the
Republican lie machine. He can chose to tell the truth or get buried.
> And plenty of others aren’t ready to take a position.
> "I’ll do the best I can, but I don’t know what’s the right thing to do
> yet," Rep. Joe Donnelly (D-Ind.) told the Los Angeles Times after a town
> hall meeting. "I don’t know what I’m going to do. I don’t even know what
> we’re going to be voting on."
> **********************
If they do what is _right_ for the American people they will pass a bill
with a strong public option. Most of us see the subsidy for lower income
people, the Public Option, and no exclusions to long term pre existing
conditions such as the main ingredients of reform. All the rest is pork
barreling and lobby sucking.
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"Those are my opinions and you can’t have em" — Bart Simpson